Not Logged In Log In   Sign Up   Points Leaders
Follow Us    12:19 AM

GasBuddy News Article

52
votes
Oil Spill Spotlights Keystone XL Issue: Is Canadian Crude Worse?

National Geographic News -- David Hatfield, an Arkansas wildlife photographer and minister, rose before dawn on Monday and headed to Lake Conway.

Even though he had lived nearby for 25 years, Hatfield never knew of the threat now oozing near this 6,700-acre habitat 25 miles north of Little Rock, the largest game and wildlife commission reservoir in the United States.

"It surprised me that we had a pipeline here," he said.

But ExxonMobil's Pegasus pipeline has been buried here for more than six decades, quietly propelling oil between Texas and Illinois beneath the backyards of Mayflower, Arkansas. Pegasus' years in obscurity ended March 29, when it ruptured, spilling at least 12,000 barrels (504,000 gallons/1.9 million liters) of heavy Canadian crude oil and water into the neighborhood. (See related "Pictures: Arka


Read the Full Article

Submitted Apr 06, 2013 By: skb69sa
Category: Daily News Article Discussions > Topics Add to favorite topics  
Author Topic: Oil Spill Spotlights Keystone XL Issue: Is Canadian Crude Worse? Back to Topics
REPLIES (newest first) Post a Reply
Profile Pic
drpepperTX
Champion Author Texas

Posts:13,335
Points:1,348,345
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Apr 10, 2013 11:52:49 AM

LOL, teafertwo opines "Exxon and the oil & gas industry urge you to contact your elected officials and tell them you fully support the new XL pipeline because the oil & gas industry is the only form of energy you can rely on that you will never have to worry about spills, water contamination or other hazards because the oil & gas industry has a perfect and unblemished safety record ..... ;0}"
======================================================
Can tea name ANY industry that has a "perfect and unblemished safety record"?

Thought not. (grin)
Profile Pic
drpepperTX
Champion Author Texas

Posts:13,335
Points:1,348,345
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Apr 10, 2013 11:48:08 AM

LOL, Cakesy, I saw nothing in your cut and paste job (without citation) to counter the fact that dibit has been piped in the US for over 40 years. I certainly hope you did not use some obscure blog for your sideshow around the facts of Canadian shipments of oil into the US, you'd never do that would you?

The Truth shall set you free!!!
Profile Pic
honda0105
Champion Author Tallahassee

Posts:22,891
Points:2,208,390
Joined:Nov 2008
Message Posted: Apr 10, 2013 5:54:48 AM

yea T42, totally white vest, right?
Profile Pic
teafortwo
Champion Author Washington

Posts:27,133
Points:1,978,560
Joined:Feb 2009
Message Posted: Apr 10, 2013 2:43:01 AM


Tarsands bitumen aka dilbit is exempt from the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund.

Another industry rigged loophole?

Doesn't that just make US all eager for more pipelines, spills?
Profile Pic
LetemEatCake
Champion Author Oklahoma City

Posts:5,705
Points:1,360,915
Joined:Mar 2008
Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 11:46:43 PM


Perhaps you need a little information about Tar Sands. We are not talking about when Mining began on Tar Sands. But we are talking about the importation of Dilbit not Oil or NG! No smoke, no mirrors, just the facts. Stay with me on this.

Canadian oil sands products: Raw bitumen is denser than heavy oil; it’s solid at ambient temperature and cannot be transported in pipelines or processed in conventional refineries. It must first be diluted with light oil liquid or converted into a synthetic light crude oil. The two most common products derived from oil sands are:

• Upgraded bitumen or synthetic crude oil (SCO). This is produced from bitumen in refinery conversion units that turn very heavy hydrocarbons into lighter, more valuable fractions. SCO is typically a light sweet crude oil with no heavy fractions and an API gravity typically greater than 33 degrees.

• Dilbit (bitumen blend, or diluted bitumen). This is bitumen mixed with a diluent, typically a natural gas liquid such as condensate, to make the viscosity low enough for the dilbit to
be shipped in a pipeline. Once mixed, dilbit is a heterogeneous crude oil mixture of about 22 degrees API, similar to the density and properties of other heavy crude supplies from California, Mexico, and Venezuela.

Refineries with sophisticated upgrading units, called cokers, are required to convert these heavy products into gasoline and diesel. Crudes in between light and heavy are termed medium. The United States produces heavy oil in California and imports heavy oil from a number of countries, including Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela.

Historically, the United States has imported the majority of tar sands crude from Canada in the form of synthetic crude oil, a substance similar to conventional crude oil that has already gone through an initial upgrading process. Importing tar sands oil into the United States as DilBit—instead of synthetic crude oil—is a recent and growing development. In the early days much was transported as Tar Sands via truck or rail.

In Alberta, tar sands producers have been using DilBit pipelines since the 1980s to move raw bitumen to upgrading facilities in Canada and where you have gotten way off-track. By 2009, over two-thirds of all crude produced in Alberta was transported as DilBit at some point in its production process. Over half of the pipelines currently operating in Alberta have been built in the last twenty years as the tar sands region developed.

I repeat...Bitumen is not the same as conventional oil. Canada has exported both Oil and NG to the US for years.

But, Enbridge, and Kinder Morgan are going to great lengths to pretend bitumen is the same, so you won’t hear anything about the difference from them. Unlike conventional oil that flows through a pipeline, bitumen is dense, almost solid, and needs to be mixed with diluent, like condensate, then heated and forced more aggressively under pressure through a pipeline as dilbit.

Up until 2005 Canada was self-sufficient in condensate production.  When they exported a barrel of diluted bitumen, Canada had to produced the condensate from natural gas and the bitumen from the oil sands.   When both the diluent and the bitumen are domestically produced a barrel of dilbit exported means gross exports equal net exports. Not true any more.

By 2006 condensate demand began exceeding domestic supply and oil sands producers started importing it from the US.
Increasing demand for condensate is why Enbridge reversed its Southern Lights oil export pipeline in 2010.  This pipeline used to export crude oil to the US.  Southern Lights now flows northward from Chicago, to Edmonton, and has the capacity to import 180,000 barrels a day of condensate for bitumen diluent purposes.

By 2010, 25% of the condensate needed by Alberta’s oil sands producers was being imported. By next year more than half of the condensate required to facilitate exports will be imported.

Under the industry’s extraction strategy, by 2025 Canada will be dependent on foreign markets for 85% of the condensate needed to facilitate oil sands bitumen exports—Canada will import more than 700,000 barrels a day of condensate in order to export oil sands bitumen.

The industry does not want the US to understand this growing dependency on condensate imports because the long-term, negative economic consequences are staggering. None of the negative economic impact on Canada’s balance of trade from a growing dependence on condensate imports through Northern Gateway has been incorporated into Enbridge’s economic case.

And where is that condensate likely to come from?  Only after extensive questioning at the Hearings in Edmonton 2 years ago, and request for additional information, did Enbridge confess the majority of the condensate supply for Northern Gateway is likely to come from the Middle East.

And the untold real clincher with big oil’s strategy…as if a reliance on imports from the Middle East are not enough…in order to export dilbit instead of upgrading bitumen in Alberta, almost TWICE as much pipeline capacity is required.
The rapid extraction and export of unprocessed bitumen does not represent a growth opportunity for Canada—it is a profit maximizing strategy for large multinational corporations like Suncor, Cenovus, Imperial, BP, Husky, Total and MEG Energy.  It is an energy security and price stabilization policy of foreign governments Not for the benefit of Canadian citizens through other state owned companies such as China’s CNOOC, PetroChina, Sinopec, and Norway’s Statoil.

Canada has is a growing dependency on imported condensate from the Middle East.
Profile Pic
drpepperTX
Champion Author Texas

Posts:13,335
Points:1,348,345
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 3:38:03 PM

LOL, you really know so little about this subject Cakesy?

Canada's first tar sands operation began in 1967, there's a hint for you!

The Truth shall set you free!!!


[Edited by: drpepperTX at 4/9/2013 3:39:00 PM EST]
Profile Pic
LetemEatCake
Champion Author Oklahoma City

Posts:5,705
Points:1,360,915
Joined:Mar 2008
Message Posted: Apr 9, 2013 12:10:23 AM


Pop, Just a little curious where you got the citation for this statement,

"And particularly dilbit has been shipped to, refined and fueled autos and industry in the US for the last 40+ years. Nixing the KXL will not stop it." Do you want to count the first Peoples usage to waterproof canoes?

Sure, "Canadian oil of all types has been coming into the US for years."....but not liquified tar sands, which is the issue at hand.

Smoke and mirrors?
Profile Pic
drpepperTX
Champion Author Texas

Posts:13,335
Points:1,348,345
Joined:Apr 2011
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 7:47:23 PM

LOL, aviator rob says "Why is the distance of the pipeline important, @mstearno? It's the last mile to the tar sands that is the real problem. Don't build that and none of that crud can make it into this country."What an utterly and profoundly naive statement Rob! Canadian oil of all types has been coming into the US for years. And particularly dilbit has been shipped to, refined and fueled autos and industry in the US for the last 40+ years. Nixing the KXL will not stop it.

LOL, you just can't make this naïveté up!!!
Profile Pic
remay
Champion Author Houston

Posts:9,333
Points:2,705,315
Joined:May 2006
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 1:00:50 PM

There are ways to test the inside of the pipeline to ensure it is intact. No mention of when it was last done for this one...
Profile Pic
tomok
Champion Author Portland

Posts:43,680
Points:2,944,035
Joined:Aug 2006
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 2:53:00 AM

Is Canadian Crude Worse? Canadian 'Tar Sands' or Bitumen Crude Oil..... a very corrosive oil to be refined! Transporting crude oil by pipeline is the most efficient way to move it to the gulf coast refinieries.
A 60 year buried oil pipeline and it finally leaks after all this time.
Minimize oil spills, maintain pipeline inspections and repair when necessary.
Drive vehicles with high MPG, are very safe, reliable, have a ‘reasonable’ cost and a good ‘value’ for the money.
The price of fuel at the pump is too high!
Profile Pic
teafortwo
Champion Author Washington

Posts:27,133
Points:1,978,560
Joined:Feb 2009
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 1:08:56 AM


One more example of the safety record of Exxon and the oil & gas industry.

A peaceful day in a neighborhood close to an oil pipeline.

Consider the facts and support a pipeline coming to your neighborhood soon.
Profile Pic
mstearno
Champion Author Dayton

Posts:9,537
Points:2,233,115
Joined:Jan 2008
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:47:38 AM

some facts are just too hard for some to understand
I prefer jobs doing something useful
Profile Pic
teafortwo
Champion Author Washington

Posts:27,133
Points:1,978,560
Joined:Feb 2009
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:35:42 AM


Exxon and the oil & gas industry urge you to contact your elected officials and tell them you fully support the new XL pipeline because the oil & gas industry is the only form of energy you can rely on that you will never have to worry about spills, water contamination or other hazards because the oil & gas industry has a perfect and unblemished safety record ..... ;0}
Profile Pic
TripleEAgent
Rookie Author Oklahoma City

Posts:13
Points:169,615
Joined:Feb 2013
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:28:24 AM

What is most important: our way of life, US & Canada economic gain, or protecting the environment?
Profile Pic
Vette1967
Champion Author Albany

Posts:8,540
Points:1,874,395
Joined:Jun 2009
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:25:41 AM

No one knows what lurks beneath the soil of our backyards.
Profile Pic
crreed1
Champion Author West Virginia

Posts:4,370
Points:3,057,085
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:21:01 AM

it all will be exported
Profile Pic
us4usa
Champion Author Missouri

Posts:7,095
Points:1,490,220
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:19:58 AM

What a mess...
Profile Pic
heartbroken2010
Champion Author Ottawa

Posts:6,905
Points:1,495,260
Joined:Aug 2010
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:18:54 AM

sad thing to happen , but things do wear out and become weak. i think this can be fixed .
Profile Pic
N5EXY
Champion Author Austin

Posts:8,080
Points:2,108,000
Joined:Jul 2004
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:18:26 AM

Same story different headline.
Profile Pic
tedjm1
Champion Author New York

Posts:5,609
Points:801,050
Joined:Dec 2006
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:18:02 AM

Guess no one inspected this pipeline.
Profile Pic
Aviator_Rob
Champion Author New York

Posts:6,758
Points:997,760
Joined:Mar 2012
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:15:51 AM

Why is the distance of the pipeline important, @mstearno? It's the last mile to the tar sands that is the real problem. Don't build that and none of that crud can make it into this country.

Understand that we, as Americans, will not see one drop of that liquid asphalt, unless it spills out of that pipeline. Once it makes it to the Gulf, it'll be refined and then pumped onto tankers bound for China. We take all of the risk and get none of the benefits.

That sound like a fair deal to you?
Profile Pic
KrsnaDragon
Champion Author Montreal

Posts:5,117
Points:1,125,740
Joined:Nov 2011
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:13:45 AM

Synthetic crude oil from the Alberta tar sands -- crude... or crud..?
Profile Pic
veemotors
Champion Author Alberta

Posts:1,314
Points:106,975
Joined:Jun 2008
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:12:45 AM

60 years old???
Profile Pic
jkpsr
Champion Author New Jersey

Posts:5,936
Points:1,574,480
Joined:Jun 2005
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:11:30 AM

That very dirty Canadian oil has got to be harder on the pipelines.
Profile Pic
1fulltank
Champion Author Buffalo

Posts:10,259
Points:2,106,690
Joined:Nov 2008
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:11:27 AM

Accountability.
Profile Pic
naspa
Champion Author Cleveland

Posts:3,960
Points:950,350
Joined:Jan 2012
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:10:52 AM

No new pipeline.
Profile Pic
Maintroll
Champion Author Lexington

Posts:11,201
Points:2,301,410
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:10:25 AM

Welcome to the real world of oil pipelines.
Profile Pic
boatfloyd
Champion Author Jacksonville

Posts:4,338
Points:987,120
Joined:Mar 2012
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:09:33 AM

Surprise
Profile Pic
pa79th
Champion Author Pennsylvania

Posts:4,350
Points:1,796,925
Joined:Jun 2007
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:09:21 AM

Old news leftover from yesterday! And the day before that. And the day before that!
Profile Pic
silverfox63
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:10,469
Points:2,158,875
Joined:Oct 2008
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:09:19 AM

Old news.
Profile Pic
Glock26
Champion Author Dayton

Posts:3,987
Points:1,205,225
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:07:16 AM

What did you expect ???
Profile Pic
pyndasky
Champion Author Maryland

Posts:12,683
Points:2,379,105
Joined:May 2008
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:07:11 AM

this is ridiculous
Profile Pic
madison8359
Champion Author Cleveland

Posts:15,507
Points:2,190,130
Joined:Apr 2008
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:07:00 AM

Keep Canadian oils in Canada.
Profile Pic
Tsunamiron
Champion Author Jacksonville

Posts:3,876
Points:1,145,800
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:06:39 AM

The pipeline was probably way too old. Should probably be replaced every 30 - 40 years.
Profile Pic
jetskijerry
Champion Author North Carolina

Posts:6,412
Points:1,362,585
Joined:Mar 2011
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:06:32 AM

yes
Profile Pic
mk9999
Champion Author Rochester

Posts:10,485
Points:2,272,145
Joined:Aug 2008
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:05:52 AM

No maintenance is the problem.
Profile Pic
pv2004
Champion Author Connecticut

Posts:1,270
Points:825,960
Joined:Jun 2004
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:05:06 AM

old
Profile Pic
TheSicilian
Champion Author Jacksonville

Posts:7,952
Points:2,068,475
Joined:Feb 2009
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:04:41 AM

lets get it already
Profile Pic
LKnight598
Champion Author South Carolina

Posts:2,458
Points:548,270
Joined:Nov 2005
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:04:21 AM

Enough! Approve the dang thing and get on with it!!!
Profile Pic
mstearno
Champion Author Dayton

Posts:9,537
Points:2,233,115
Joined:Jan 2008
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:02:50 AM

more facts

The controversial fourth phase, the Keystone XL Pipeline Project, would begin at the oil distribution hub in Hardisty, Alberta and extend 1,179 miles (1,897 km), to Steele City, Nebraska. [3]

I like facts if more people really realized what a small percentage of increase this pipeline would cause perhaps they'd better understand that the shouters don't always have to have their way

Go ahead hold your breath, at worse you'll pass out you won't die
Profile Pic
Dennisjk
Champion Author Detroit

Posts:8,430
Points:2,467,260
Joined:Apr 2006
Message Posted: Apr 7, 2013 12:02:35 AM

Just put the pipeline in.
Profile Pic
mabrams184
Champion Author Lexington

Posts:3,862
Points:1,096,605
Joined:Aug 2011
Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 11:57:06 PM

There is new technology to help detect and limit spills.
Profile Pic
mstearno
Champion Author Dayton

Posts:9,537
Points:2,233,115
Joined:Jan 2008
Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 11:56:35 PM

The network of crude oil pipelines in the U.S. is extensive. There are approximately 55,000 miles of crude oil trunk lines (usually 8 - 24 inches in diameter) in the U.S. that connect regional markets. The map below shows some of the major crude oil trunk lines in the U.S.

The U.S. also has an estimated 30,000 to 40,000 miles of small gathering lines (usually 2 to 6 inches in diameter) located primarily in Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, and Wyoming with small systems in a number of other oil producing states. These small lines gather the oil from many wells, both onshore and offshore, and connect to larger trunk lines measuring from 8 to 24 inches in diameter.

Sorry facts make you feel queezy
Profile Pic
Aviator_Rob
Champion Author New York

Posts:6,758
Points:997,760
Joined:Mar 2012
Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 11:56:31 PM

So tell me, @mstearno, how many barrels spilled is an acceptable number to you? Obviously, "accidents happen". How much spilled oil is acceptable to you, then?

Don't just accept the status quo. There's no progress to be made there.
Profile Pic
goodbuy
Champion Author Michigan

Posts:10,085
Points:1,984,015
Joined:May 2005
Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 11:55:47 PM

When was the last time it was inspected?
Profile Pic
vibdata
Champion Author Massachusetts

Posts:5,105
Points:1,065,955
Joined:Nov 2005
Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 11:55:44 PM

The shale oil is a huge mess. Any oil is. These leaks and incursions into people's lives will continue to plauge them all the rest of their days.
Profile Pic
Aviator_Rob
Champion Author New York

Posts:6,758
Points:997,760
Joined:Mar 2012
Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 11:53:41 PM

"IT"S the anti-oil people who cause us to drill in deeper waters and look what that caused."

You can't be serious, @mstearno. You honestly believe that? Drillers only go where they think the payoff is. We've already Hoovered dry all the oil out of the shallow water sights. They can try again there in a few million years when the new oil has come back to those places.
Profile Pic
sehonda
Champion Author Honolulu

Posts:3,022
Points:1,155,890
Joined:May 2009
Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 11:52:41 PM

a spill is a spill
Profile Pic
mstearno
Champion Author Dayton

Posts:9,537
Points:2,233,115
Joined:Jan 2008
Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 11:52:11 PM

facts
ever hear of them?
Profile Pic
Aviator_Rob
Champion Author New York

Posts:6,758
Points:997,760
Joined:Mar 2012
Message Posted: Apr 6, 2013 11:50:44 PM

So @mstearno, what's your opinion in all of this then? "Just git 'er dun?"

A lot of people in this forum don't seem to think through their comments but just go for the knee jerk reaction. How is that helpful?

Now, I'm sorry if my raising some questions makes all of you so uncomfortable but it's not written in the Constitution that you have a right to not feel uncomfortable. Use the brain you were born with and actually think through some of the issues.
Post a reply Back to Topics