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‘Everyone’s a bit lost’: Carmakers think outside the box as electric dreams shatter

Financial Post -- There is a growing awareness that conventional hybrids and slow-selling battery cars simply won’t be enough to meet rigid EU emissions limits.

Automakers are broadly on track to meet the interim goal of trimming vehicles’ average CO2 output to 130g/km by 2015. But drastic steps are needed to meet the 95g target set for 2020 and the potential for tougher standards after that.

Battery technology has not been able to resolve the century-old problem of too much weight and limited range capability. Despite the billions spent by the likes of Renault-Nissan to develop electric cars, optimism about their future has “dampened considerably.”

World leader Toyota dropped plans for broader sale of the battery-powered eQ last September, saying it had misread demand.

GM’s Opel scrapped plans for a fu

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Submitted Mar 10, 2013 By: Nicoalbum

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honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,570 Points:1,604,545 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Mar 14, 2013 5:57:32 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse by the time I buy my next new car, they're thinking back IN the box....
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,570 Points:1,604,545 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Mar 13, 2013 5:52:45 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse no new car on the horizon for me as far as I can see.
lusigns Rookie Author Ottawa Posts:90 Points:30,515 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2013 6:50:40 AM Ignore lusigns Report Abuse Time I bought share in Horse'n Cart!
tomok Champion Author Portland Posts:32,906 Points:2,341,510 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Mar 12, 2013 2:40:40 AM Ignore tomok Report Abuse ‘Everyone’s a bit lost’: Carmakers think outside the box as electric dreams shatter...... My pocket cannot afford these High Priced Vehicles! EV's and Inbreds need a high capacity battery, faster battery recharing time, high distance mile driving range and people that can afford to buy them when they have NO job or income in Sneeky's present day 'in the crapper' socialist economy. When the government forces these things down our throats and don't check to see if the technology is available and doable for the masses, this is what you get. ‘Everyone’s a bit lost,’ Electric Dreams Shattered and Rightlfully So! I will drive my vehicle into the ground before buying anything new, used, EV, Inbred, Plug In, diesel, hydrogen, alternative fuel, CNG, concept and certainly NOT a GM, Ford, Chrysler, Fiat, Prius, 'Tesla,' Leaf, Volt, Peugeot or an NYC/Hurricane Sandy Special 'exploding submarine' Fiskar Karma Inbred! Drive vehicles with high MPG, are very safe, reliable, have a ‘reasonable’ cost and a good ‘value’ for the money. The price of fuel at the pump is too high!
DrCashFlow Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:7,049 Points:1,622,350 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 10:22:29 AM Ignore DrCashFlow Report Abuse thanks for grounding us, abob
NedW Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:5,589 Points:1,137,270 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 1:59:36 AM Ignore NedW Report Abuse Thank you for submitting this article, Nicoalbum.
lesndave Champion Author Texas Posts:3,017 Points:696,405 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 1:31:17 AM Ignore lesndave Report Abuse Ok
F34RL3SSNIT3 Veteran Author Austin Posts:338 Points:68,060 Joined:Mar 2013	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:45:28 AM Ignore F34RL3SSNIT3 Report Abuse ok
Doomsday64 All-Star Author Austin Posts:839 Points:332,030 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:45:15 AM Ignore Doomsday64 Report Abuse ok
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,776 Points:409,565 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:24:53 AM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse Ethanol free gas would also cost 25% more, @mrjames1818, so you'd be right back to square one. The refiners have also been cutting corners when it comes to maintaining high octane since ethanol is a natural octane booster. Drop the ethanol from gas today and you can watch the octane drop to below 85.
lin95688 Veteran Author California Posts:492 Points:233,295 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:24:27 AM Ignore lin95688 Report Abuse if the car maker can produce more practical electric vehicle, longer range, easy access, short time recharging and most importantly affordable, just like Toyota Prius had been decades ago, then i will guarantee that sale will increase dramatically. In meantime,some technological breakthrough is needed in order to build these wonderful vehicles. good news is we are getting there, the Tesla Model S looks promising. it hits few right spots such as performances and longer driving range than most EVs. it just needs to be more affordable to general public not just few elites.
crreed1 Champion Author West Virginia Posts:1,965 Points:2,522,335 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:22:41 AM Ignore crreed1 Report Abuse build something
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,776 Points:409,565 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:22:26 AM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse One thing to point out about EVs @VikingWoman is that the batteries are meant to last for the life of the car. That's why they're so expensive. These aren't A.C. Delco car starter batteries that last five years and then conk out in cold weather. If you think new batteries are expensive, how much do you think a new engine and transmission from the factory costs?
MN1 Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:3,339 Points:646,590 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:21:20 AM Ignore MN1 Report Abuse Stopgap on the way to affordable fuel cells.
mrjames1818 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:1,525 Points:1,994,095 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:20:55 AM Ignore mrjames1818 Report Abuse Nat Gas may be the way to go - If they made ethanol free gas more available you would see mpg increase by 25%
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,776 Points:409,565 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:20:01 AM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse To those saying that diesel is the answer, that's a very expensive answer for not that much of an increase in mpg. Putting more diesel vehicles on the road will only further increase the cost of diesel. Plus, you get less diesel than gasoline from the same barrel of oil. If you want more diesel, you'll need more oil from which to refine it.
VikingWoman Champion Author Washington Posts:1,244 Points:247,850 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:19:23 AM Ignore VikingWoman Report Abuse Just a few reasons these are not selling as predicted: Cost of purchase Limited driving distance High cost of battery replacement No place to recharge if you live in an apartment High cost to install charging station if you own a home
iFueler Champion Author Durham Posts:64,268 Points:174,525 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:17:57 AM Ignore iFueler Report Abuse in the short term hybrids and EVs are at best a very small niche market
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,776 Points:409,565 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:16:39 AM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse Actually, @CISA, California passed clean air standards for vehicle emissions nearly 20 years ago and that's what spurred GM to build their first electric car, the EV1. It was the relaxing of the standards that killed that electric car. It was also production of the EV1 by GM that prompted Toyota to build the Prius, in order to compete. High standards are good for everyone. Without them, we would never have any progress.
jrsva Champion Author Virginia Posts:9,830 Points:1,608,250 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:16:19 AM Ignore jrsva Report Abuse “Electric car are good as golf carts they were doomed from the start you still need to Charge them and that is power company's same as big Oil Greedy Biches A Peter to Paul Scheme.” Boatmen have you ever thought of using punctuation and proper capitalization not to mention spelling and grammar so that at least sometimes people can read what you wrote one time and not have to go back over it to try to figure out what you were trying to say in the first place like that run on sentence you just posted that is a lot of trouble to decipher and when you finally figure it out it doesnt make any sense at least to me of course i think electric cars are good for more than golf carts like for example urban commuting especially if you have access to solar power for charging so you dont need to burn coal for electricity and pollute the air i hope you get my point.
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,776 Points:409,565 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:13:15 AM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse What's there to break, @heartbroken2010. The electric motor is the only moving part in the powertrain of an EV. There's also no transmission fluid, motor oil, or engine coolant necessary, either.
mfeldstein Champion Author Ottawa Posts:8,156 Points:1,927,455 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:12:48 AM Ignore mfeldstein Report Abuse I'm waiting for hydrogen fuel cells.
CISA Champion Author Orange County Posts:5,927 Points:1,395,010 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:11:36 AM Ignore CISA Report Abuse affordable hybrids, diesel and MORE OIL PRODUCTION is the solution consumers will buy what they want, not what politicians think they should about 10 yrs ago in CA the legislature passed mileage restrictions--- and what did they drive: SUVs, Hummers, etc, etc. obviously, what's good for the goose ain't good enough for the gander
mcbrownie220 Sophomore Author Toledo Posts:225 Points:150,625 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:11:27 AM Ignore mcbrownie220 Report Abuse ok
yyc2yow All-Star Author Ottawa Posts:631 Points:566,335 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:11:19 AM Ignore yyc2yow Report Abuse what?
Rooster922 Champion Author Wilmington Posts:3,768 Points:652,070 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:11:14 AM Ignore Rooster922 Report Abuse Built a centralized fart collector. Less weight.
72_Monte Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:7,745 Points:1,992,235 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:11:11 AM Ignore 72_Monte Report Abuse Bet some of these manufacturers wished they hadn't waited so long to start their research.
tedjm1 Champion Author New York Posts:5,609 Points:800,300 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:10:18 AM Ignore tedjm1 Report Abuse Ehhh....
rahcat Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:2,448 Points:658,200 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:09:53 AM Ignore rahcat Report Abuse Old News
HEBster Champion Author Kentucky Posts:8,763 Points:2,369,050 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:09:23 AM Ignore HEBster Report Abuse Whatever it takes
bridgerunner Champion Author Virginia Posts:4,767 Points:1,002,835 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:09:18 AM Ignore bridgerunner Report Abuse I wonder what too so long to figure out?
KrsnaDragon Champion Author Montreal Posts:2,387 Points:526,650 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:08:35 AM Ignore KrsnaDragon Report Abuse Old 'news'.
heartbroken2010 Champion Author Ottawa Posts:4,319 Points:892,560 Joined:Aug 2010	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:07:48 AM Ignore heartbroken2010 Report Abuse limited distance ranges are the biggest reason why this is failing, not to mention the high cost of these. cant wait to see the average repair cost over a 5 year period for these cars.
CharlieC08 Champion Author Colorado Posts:8,077 Points:1,486,075 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:07:24 AM Ignore CharlieC08 Report Abuse I'll keep my diesel pickup.
walkerms1 All-Star Author Albany Posts:960 Points:159,900 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:07:01 AM Ignore walkerms1 Report Abuse Diesel is the answer.
unclenorman Champion Author Tampa Posts:1,323 Points:134,400 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:07:01 AM Ignore unclenorman Report Abuse Forget EV's.
JasTheAce All-Star Author Raleigh Posts:945 Points:167,360 Joined:Nov 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:06:27 AM Ignore JasTheAce Report Abuse cool
Toppers Champion Author Atlanta Posts:8,987 Points:2,465,720 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:05:57 AM Ignore Toppers Report Abuse don't know if it'll work
TheSicilian Champion Author Jacksonville Posts:5,354 Points:1,465,525 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:05:54 AM Ignore TheSicilian Report Abuse No surprise
yakstar Champion Author Montreal Posts:2,395 Points:474,670 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:05:40 AM Ignore yakstar Report Abuse get 'r done!
jtfftj Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:2,167 Points:1,244,400 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:05:02 AM Ignore jtfftj Report Abuse The only ones not surprised are former Chevy Corvair owners.
ManOfLeisureII Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:1,854 Points:450,900 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:04:48 AM Ignore ManOfLeisureII Report Abuse Old overseas news
TheeRedRam Champion Author Hartford Posts:3,138 Points:668,410 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:03:54 AM Ignore TheeRedRam Report Abuse We shall see on this one
N5EXY Champion Author Austin Posts:5,472 Points:1,505,930 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:03:19 AM Ignore N5EXY Report Abuse Shocking?
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,776 Points:409,565 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:01:46 AM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse Can you tell me which scientists are divided and unsure, @Oldzin? There are so few climate skeptic scientists that you should be able to name them all by now. Here's a fact regarding how much CO2 humanity produces. We produce 130 times more CO2 than all of the volcanos in the world. The only way the volcanos can catch up with us is if they were all erupting simultaneously and non-stop. Imagine Mount St. Helens Helens constantly erupting since 1980. That's how much CO2 we're talking about. 7 billion people have a very measurable impact on the Earth.
joel27nc Champion Author Raleigh Posts:10,512 Points:1,853,395 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:01:19 AM Ignore joel27nc Report Abuse More technology needed!
OGW Champion Author London Posts:5,324 Points:1,529,650 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:01:12 AM Ignore OGW Report Abuse They have been lost for the last 30 years!
mcmonsta Champion Author Honolulu Posts:3,207 Points:813,795 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: Mar 11, 2013 12:00:18 AM Ignore mcmonsta Report Abuse necessity will fuel more invention
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,776 Points:409,565 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Mar 10, 2013 11:56:45 PM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse @brucevanf says, "Some things are possible in this world and other things are just fantasy." Well, tell us which are possible and which are fantasy, bruce?
Oldzin All-Star Author Orange County Posts:775 Points:176,400 Joined:Oct 2012	Message Posted: Mar 10, 2013 11:56:38 PM Ignore Oldzin Report Abuse These regulations will just jack up the price of cars for everyone, and it is unclear what the real environmental benefits will be. Will reducing automotive CO2 output make a quntifiable difference in global warming? Scientists are divided and unsure.